Why the fishermen, dropouts, and traitors Jesus chose would get rejected by most modern pastoral search committees, and what that reveals about our system.
Good article…..my friends and I use to joke that the MDiv is the church version of the MBA. I agree degrees can be helpful. It's all about your motivation and desire in pursuing higher ed.But church culture puts way to much emphasis on this them. It's another example how cooperate business models have inflitrated the church. It's almost like the degree is an idol at times. and I've seen first hand how deceptive it becomes.
Yes! Good word, brother! I was trying to be gentle and humble, but the way we hire vs the way Jesus chose is worlds apart. Different values/behaviors will always get different results. That’s why we are not getting Jesus results in disciple-making!
I remember back in seminary, we had a few alumni’s come and share their experiences. In a conversation one of my lecturer’s pointed out one of the alumni, who he said was not that good academically but always put in the effort. My lecturer went on to say that he did extremely well in the field compared to the classroom. This bit caught my attention and one I still remember.
Great article, and I have read it several times. Thankful I found you. Stienle said, “…the church is made up of interconnected individuals.” For a healthy culture, leadership must understand how they operate within the system and how that affects the church. In Western culture, bigger is better. The only metrics most church leadership boards use are external metrics. Buildings, Budgets, Baptisms, and Butts in the seats, only external metrics and not the health or inward life of the pastor. As long as the external metrics look good, they will disregard the pastor's character issues. Pastors become content creators and inwardly die and burn out at alarming rates. In my research, only the church lacks a process to ensure its caregivers (pastors) are doing well emotionally. The church needs to start addressing the inward life, as Jesus did with his disciples. Thank you!
Yes! Also, in the Jesus model He raised up the leaders from within and from the mission field. He didn’t go find the experts in the outside and recruit them with salaries and benefits. He observed them and called them deeper and deeper as he saw their willingness to leave comfort and security to invest in the Kingdom! I’m glad to have you here, Charlie!
Thank you! Every pastor/staff member on my staff was first a church member. I have known our Discipleship Pastor since he was in the right grade in our student ministry. Blessings to you and your work!
Jesus taught the disciples daily and several times in Mark he said to them, "do you still not see or understand? They were seeing things physically and not spiritually and he wanted them to see the spiritual so badly but mortal man seems to always react physically before spiritually and as someone said if we see things in the church through a business lense we want a polished appearance and is there time to train from within and still have a polished look? He uses the foolish to confound the wise but the world and legalities may keep the person seeing things spiritually but with no credentials from being considered to serve.
I’m always amazed at how Jesus goes against the way we think of hiring and breaks all the rules. Jesus choosing Simon the Zelot was something that’s made me go “huh?!?”. It’s funny that we get all this information in the Bible and then close our eyes and say, “Well Jesus, we believe you as Lord and Savior, but we’ll shelve your way on hiring.”
That’s right, Jonathan! We think we have better tools and systems than Jesus modeled for us, even after He went to the unimaginable trouble to incarnate Himself to come show us!
So good! I have heard someone say that Seminary is where faith goes to die…. It is NOT true for everyone with a seminary degree!! But, I have seen intellectualism RUIN someone’s heart for others.
Thank you Kevin…I have tried to restrain myself from restacking several sections of this article…yes, I was literally eating out of it. I think I limited it to three…🫣😂
It’s beautiful, humbling and powerful on how our yes to Jesus can look like…
Without making light of this article…this reminded me of the donkey that God used during the encounter between Balak & Balam. She (I think it was a female donkey) might not have said yes to God, but it is a humbling reminder of how God uses anything to accomplish His good purposes. I suppose we’d have to wait to get to heaven to get the inside scoop about this encounter between the Angel who was sent on this assignment…just saying…
How much more from those of us created in His image & likeness when we say yes to Him…
If Jesus & the disciples isn’t convincing enough, I don’t know what else is.
Jesus Himself said to His disciples that greater things shall they do after Him.
Thank you again.
May this spur us to renew our yes to Jesus…because that’s the whole point of our existence…right?
Good stuff, Kevin! It reminds me of a pastoral transition gig I did in TN several years ago. I asked the small church body to fill out a simple survey, then I reviewed the results with them. As I went through all the qualities people thought were needed, I asked, "So what kind of person do you think this shows us we need?" The classic response (somewhat sarcastic, but true), "Jesus!" Yes, that about hit the nail on the head.
They were looking for the "perfect pastor," and I encouraged them to be realistic. Eventually, we chose a pastor to fill the role, and I went back home. Yes, he's still there ;-)
I appreciate your point. Reading this reminded me that Jesus chose fishermen, a tax collector, and others without credentials. It shows God looks at the heart, not status. “The Lord looks at the heart” (1 Samuel 16:7 NIV). Leadership is surrendering to Him and using His gifts faithfully.
Good article…..my friends and I use to joke that the MDiv is the church version of the MBA. I agree degrees can be helpful. It's all about your motivation and desire in pursuing higher ed.But church culture puts way to much emphasis on this them. It's another example how cooperate business models have inflitrated the church. It's almost like the degree is an idol at times. and I've seen first hand how deceptive it becomes.
Yes! Good word, brother! I was trying to be gentle and humble, but the way we hire vs the way Jesus chose is worlds apart. Different values/behaviors will always get different results. That’s why we are not getting Jesus results in disciple-making!
Good job being gentle and humble.....that is much needed in any expression of church
Exactly....
I remember back in seminary, we had a few alumni’s come and share their experiences. In a conversation one of my lecturer’s pointed out one of the alumni, who he said was not that good academically but always put in the effort. My lecturer went on to say that he did extremely well in the field compared to the classroom. This bit caught my attention and one I still remember.
This is good Jonathan! In other words, excellent academic skill does not necessarily equate to excellent disciple-making skills!
Great article, and I have read it several times. Thankful I found you. Stienle said, “…the church is made up of interconnected individuals.” For a healthy culture, leadership must understand how they operate within the system and how that affects the church. In Western culture, bigger is better. The only metrics most church leadership boards use are external metrics. Buildings, Budgets, Baptisms, and Butts in the seats, only external metrics and not the health or inward life of the pastor. As long as the external metrics look good, they will disregard the pastor's character issues. Pastors become content creators and inwardly die and burn out at alarming rates. In my research, only the church lacks a process to ensure its caregivers (pastors) are doing well emotionally. The church needs to start addressing the inward life, as Jesus did with his disciples. Thank you!
Yes! Also, in the Jesus model He raised up the leaders from within and from the mission field. He didn’t go find the experts in the outside and recruit them with salaries and benefits. He observed them and called them deeper and deeper as he saw their willingness to leave comfort and security to invest in the Kingdom! I’m glad to have you here, Charlie!
Thank you! Every pastor/staff member on my staff was first a church member. I have known our Discipleship Pastor since he was in the right grade in our student ministry. Blessings to you and your work!
Jesus taught the disciples daily and several times in Mark he said to them, "do you still not see or understand? They were seeing things physically and not spiritually and he wanted them to see the spiritual so badly but mortal man seems to always react physically before spiritually and as someone said if we see things in the church through a business lense we want a polished appearance and is there time to train from within and still have a polished look? He uses the foolish to confound the wise but the world and legalities may keep the person seeing things spiritually but with no credentials from being considered to serve.
I love this insight Charmaine! So good!! Thank you for being part of our community!
I’m always amazed at how Jesus goes against the way we think of hiring and breaks all the rules. Jesus choosing Simon the Zelot was something that’s made me go “huh?!?”. It’s funny that we get all this information in the Bible and then close our eyes and say, “Well Jesus, we believe you as Lord and Savior, but we’ll shelve your way on hiring.”
That’s right, Jonathan! We think we have better tools and systems than Jesus modeled for us, even after He went to the unimaginable trouble to incarnate Himself to come show us!
So good! I have heard someone say that Seminary is where faith goes to die…. It is NOT true for everyone with a seminary degree!! But, I have seen intellectualism RUIN someone’s heart for others.
Super sad! Discipleship > Seminary!
Thank you Kevin…I have tried to restrain myself from restacking several sections of this article…yes, I was literally eating out of it. I think I limited it to three…🫣😂
It’s beautiful, humbling and powerful on how our yes to Jesus can look like…
Without making light of this article…this reminded me of the donkey that God used during the encounter between Balak & Balam. She (I think it was a female donkey) might not have said yes to God, but it is a humbling reminder of how God uses anything to accomplish His good purposes. I suppose we’d have to wait to get to heaven to get the inside scoop about this encounter between the Angel who was sent on this assignment…just saying…
How much more from those of us created in His image & likeness when we say yes to Him…
If Jesus & the disciples isn’t convincing enough, I don’t know what else is.
Jesus Himself said to His disciples that greater things shall they do after Him.
Thank you again.
May this spur us to renew our yes to Jesus…because that’s the whole point of our existence…right?
Blessings to all
Such a good word, RRC! Blessings!
Good stuff, Kevin! It reminds me of a pastoral transition gig I did in TN several years ago. I asked the small church body to fill out a simple survey, then I reviewed the results with them. As I went through all the qualities people thought were needed, I asked, "So what kind of person do you think this shows us we need?" The classic response (somewhat sarcastic, but true), "Jesus!" Yes, that about hit the nail on the head.
They were looking for the "perfect pastor," and I encouraged them to be realistic. Eventually, we chose a pastor to fill the role, and I went back home. Yes, he's still there ;-)
Haha. Great word, Trip.
I appreciate your point. Reading this reminded me that Jesus chose fishermen, a tax collector, and others without credentials. It shows God looks at the heart, not status. “The Lord looks at the heart” (1 Samuel 16:7 NIV). Leadership is surrendering to Him and using His gifts faithfully.
YES! Good work SZL! Thank you for engaging!
I’m saving this one to read!!!
He also doesn't look for those that are aesthetically pleasing! haha great article