Paul and Barnabas didn’t plant one massive church in Antioch and livestream to the surrounding regions. They planted churches in every city they entered, appointed elders, and moved on 🚶🏽➡️🚶♂️➡️.
Could you speak more to the topic of appointing leaders who have been discipled for a few months? What does that look like for you? Many small churches (including ours) need more leadership and I wonder sometimes if we wait too long to appoint people as official leaders. What are you doing to build up those potential leaders and then appoint them?
We activate people as quickly as possible at an appropriate level of leadership.
Jesus selected the least qualified people in Israel. They were unclean fisherman, tax-collectors, zealots, and worse. He could have selected members of the Sanhedrin to build the Kingdom on, but He didn’t! He picked those b/c He didn’t have to spend time un-teaching them, he could just put them to work. He spent about 18 months-ish on high engagement modeling, then he assisted them, and coached them, and finally sent them! iMACS = identify, model, assist, coach, and send.
We try to get new disciples moving quickly doing SOMETHING. We usually take them through the 21-day challenge and have them start practicing asking questions and sharing their story and have the identify 3-5 people they can repeat the 21-day challenge with almost as soon as their done. So within 4-6 weeks, they can repeat the process. Then we walk them into deeper levels of leadership training when appropriate.
21-day challenge → seeker group → x-group → discipling community. Each of those has either a modeling or training phase.
I think the problem that churches often run into is that they don’t know or train people who just met Jesus that they can pretty immediately become disciple-makers! We don’t give them appropriate level tools!
I’d be happy to get on a zoom call if it’s helpful!
I really love the concepts in this post. I think you are tapping into the psyche of many American Christians, particularly in church leadership.
However, I see a problem I'd love your input on -- that's not what 95% of professing believers want. Most want the bigger church with programs and systems, etc.
I'm not saying they should want that, but that they do. It's not the ideal, but it is the norm.
So how do we operate in a culture where that is the norm? This kind of call to a more idealistic approach definitely resonates with me, but the realist in me doesn't see the path forward.
Could you explore what a path forward would look like?
Hey Trey! What a thoughtful and sincere question. Thank you for your thoughts!
I would have said 10 year ago you would be accurate. The modern American church was the preferred model for gathering the saints, and I think that's still true for those over 40 y.o. I launched our first disicple-making network of simple churches 20 years ago this year and we were often considered cultish and fringe. However, since COVID, I don't think that is the case. Believers under 40 don't relate to or desire the large attractional model. Even my own children are not interested in size, programs, great presentation, etc. There is a massive shift of people like you and me who are asking good questions and looking for relational models that are alternative.
The second thing I'd have to respond to is that our job is not to do the things that people want, but to be committed to following Biblical models even when people don't want them. I believe the Biblical model of disciple-making is "more time with fewer people produces greater results."
I try to not be concerned with what the 95% "want" and more about the 5% who REALLY want to make disicples who make disicples. Now, granted that poses some pretty serious problems - like - how do we make a living and how do we keep enough centralization to hold it all together. Those are REAL and SIGNIFICANT questions that we have to keep trusting the Lord with.
I think we operate in that culture by becoming MISSIONARIES to that culture and offering something that is real and deep. Our job is not to have 1000 people in worship, but to invest deeply in the few who say "YES" when Jesus asks, "Follow me?" We have to let go of our metrics that determine success for the church when they don't align with the model Jesus left us. He gave all of Himself to 3, had 9 others (who were probably layered under the 3 - 3x3) and then the 72. Each larger layer got less of Him.
8 long-form sermons to the crowd, 30-40 stories he told, about 100 one-line zingers (let the dead bury the dead), and about 340 questions mostly to individuals.
We've got the wrong scoreboard for disciple-making.
Will it cost us dearly to adopt a different scoreboard? YES!
Will it fit into the current model of large gathering attractional church? Probably not.
Will we have to figure out have to pay our bills? YES!
Is it all worth it? ABOSLUTELY!
Blessings Trey! Let's talk more - especially if you are interested in pursuing simple church!
Jesus sent his apostles fishing, out on the sea of Galilee, in a boat with nets and hooks, then they sold their catch to earn money. My point is this. All I can offer is my personal story. I’ve been doing the Lord’s work very effectively for 45 years and not once did I ask for or seek money within the context of that work.
Instead I went out and welded steel and helped build oil refineries and power plants to provide fuel and electricity for people. Much of the time I worked 60+ hr. weeks and often barely had time to wash and sleep. Did that diminish my part in the Lord’s work in any way? I can categorically tell you the answer is no.
In fact it has enhanced my ability to do the Lord’s work in many unexpected ways. My industrial construction career taught me many valuable skills, the greatest one being efficiency, and learning to make due with what tools and materials are available on a remote construction site. The Kingdom of Heaven is first and foremost about serving our fellow man. I served the Kingdom by doing my small part in making sure fuel and electricity was available for people so they could travel and heat their homes in the winter, so they could in turn also serve the Kingdom by the work they do and so on. It spread outward. Turning on one new power plant can provide a million people with essential electricity so they can, in their own way, also work for the Kingdom. That’s not merely growing and expanding by addition or multiplication. That’s exponential growth!
With that construction experience under my belt I can now direct that earned wisdom directly towards the Kingdom in my retirement years and preach the good news in a very efficient manner. The systems I have setup and use cost me a little less than $100 a year to operate and maintain. I observe many others who are working alongside me for the Kingdom who spend thousands, tens of thousands, and even more annually, for systems that only produce a fraction of what I do, both in quantity and quality, and their work is nearly always supported from donations and Kingdom related merchandise.
I’m not bashing what anyone else does. We all have the same free will. But the fact remains that Jesus sent the apostles fishing, and he sent me to weld to produce fuel and power. Both viable and highly profitable approaches to working for the Kingdom.
What does a person learn from a donation being deposited in a bank account? I’m asking because I don’t know. Never had the experience. But I do know that accepting handouts does make you obligated to your investors. That is a burden I do not have, and that is very liberating.
There are some god thoughts in this post, MA. I think there’s a lot of truth there. I would suggest looking at the missionary life of Paula and his traveling companions that often allowed Gods people to help him pay for his ministry expenses. I do think the church CEO model is broken, but I also think there is a Biblical mandate to support those God has called to a missional role. I think it’s a balance. I did both personally. I have contracts for work, depend on supporters who I fundraise with and do a little bit of “sales” like here in Substack. So IMHO there is a balance somewhere in there. Thanks for sharing!!
I totally agree Kevin. I wan't trying to push a one sided approach. Was simply relating my own experience, and how good efficiency can go a long way on very small resources. The worker does deserve his wages. Keep up the good work! We're all working for the same Kingdom.
Totally agree! Good word MA! Thank you so much for investing your life in the Kingdom and expecting nothing in return. What a huge. Blessing for you and others! May many follow that path! If we make disciples where we work, we are getting paid to do ministry!!
BINGO! You nailed it. Ministry has to be set free. It will find its way to where the need is. Ministry is a spiritual exercise and Spirit is like the wind. Wherever the wind blows I will go. Thanks for an uplifting exchange. It's just what I needed today.
I love the thoughts and love the heart. I pastored a church of this size for 7 years. I can testify to the beauty of the relationships and how it super-charged the discipleship process. I think there is a lot appetite for this type of church.
I do struggle with the concept of this being more biblical. I see passages in the Bible that do describe smaller gatherings, but I also see some that describe bigger gatherings. How does the principle of interpretation for "descriptive not prescriptive" apply here?
That’s a good word, Trey. I don’t think I’ve ever said it should be in either or, I tried to always suggest that each has its own role. I do believe the modern megaships has a role in gathering in sharing the gospel to large groups of people, but when it comes to Disciple Making, I don’t think you can have effective Rich multiplying Disciple Making In that large setting. But both are needed! I know we saw a large gathering of believers in Jerusalem, but once the gospel was pushed out to the mission fields, I don’t think you will find a large setting as far as we know in scripture. But more than anything, I only want to Imitate the model of Jesus! As far as we know, Jesus only top eight Long for servants in a crowd, he told 30 to 40 stories among smaller crowds and sometime larger, we have about 101 liners that were zingers like eat my flesh and drink my blood or let the dead buried their own dead. And we have 340 questions that he asked to individuals in order to make disciples. So our model always prioritizes more time with fewer people producing greater results. I think Jesus modeled that his deep relationships were smaller the deeper they went. Starting with Peter James and Jon. Then extending out to the other nine disciples and then beyond that to the larger crowds. I’m not adamant on this and I’m not anti-big Church. And I’m not trying to compete at all with the bigger churches. I just think that Jesus model was more time with your people.
Blessings, brother! So glad you’re jumping in these
I totally agree. With a population of 8 billion people, many approaches are needed. There's no singular approach that will get it all done, but there are certain key principles that can't be ignored. You're digging deep and uncovering the underlying pattern and that's great. The pattern is the foundation. Principles are the framework built on top of the supporting pattern. And none of it can ever go anywhere when if we close our minds to the greater realities.
If we just simply go back to the story of Jesus and recognize that he came here to model this for us, it becomes so much simpler. If we do things exactly like he did them, we will get the results that he got. Blessings brother! Thank you so much for engaging.
That helps. I certainly don't want you to think I'm putting you on blast. Just interacting with your ideas and chewing on them myself.
I think I would agree that smaller groups tend to help promote to deeper faith. That's one reason why bigger churches have a small group ministry. If done well (which doesn't always happen), these small group ministries can facilitate the slow, steady, deep faith work. Meanwhile, the large Sunday morning gathering can be beneficial to have skilled ministers of God's Word preaching, and the more efficient pooling of resources for God's work.
Again, that makes a lot of assumptions about how those ministries function.
Hey Trey! Absolutely no offense. Great convos on this and it is my passion, so you’ll never send too much! Thankful for the Body of Christ
I would love to hear more about the efficiency piece. My experience has been that when the resources of the large church are pulled together it then gets spent on meeting the perceived needs of that individual church therefore the church serving to be more attractional, therefore requiring more stuff, space, and excellent that requires more money and a large % of the pooled resources get spent on the church itself as opposed to advancing the message outside and beyond the members. There are obviously exceptions to this, but I’m in the other side regarding efficiency.
Also, on small groups within the church. Generally, the people who go to small groups are the more mature believers, and often terms become inward, focused Bible studies without an outward focused mission. Because I am gifted apostolic in evangel this rubs against my values and gifting. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a bad thing as long as this small groups stay a really good balance between shepherding on the inside and advancing on the outside, but typically that’s not the case.
If I sound jaded, he’s know that I’m not! I am making observations, not criticisms. I love the local church and I love the body of Christ. And that’s why I’m so passionate about doing it with a Jesus model at the front and a western corporate model bowing down to the Jesus model about in scripture.
Thank you so much for sharing and engaging! That’s really the answer to continue to find God‘s will for his church for his people to continue seeking him and diving! Lessons, brother!
About efficiency -- I've seen many large churches double down on buildings and more staff for managing the ever-growing ministry schedule. But I'd be interested to see the dollar amount per church member that is going toward "missional" efforts in a large church versus a smaller church. My experience is limited to a very small sliver of church types, but in that experience, my math has indicated the larger churches do a better job with missional resources per member than the smaller ones.
I also agree with you on the small groups. I've see too many small group ministries not done correctly. However, if the small group ministry is done correctly, it can be a great synergy with the large church gathering on Sunday mornings.
Not sure how you manage to boil all this down into one clear Substack post. But this is great! What a great repair to be able to share with one another about explosive kingdom impact. Thanks Kevin!!
This is such a needed perspective. The early church grew through connection, not construction. Simplicity still carries the greatest power to multiply faith.
I think that the larger churches worth their salt recognize this and encourage small groups within their membership to provide connection and accountability. There is a place for larger groups to provide economies of scale, but effective evangelism really happens via relationships.
I think I would just ask economies of scale for what. What type of disciples are being made? Is there a place to raise up multipliers or is everyone a “come and see” person? What are we equipping them to do with their faith? Is the system that requires so much investment (time, $, volunteerism, planning, execuring, etc) leaving any margin for people to make disciple in the places they live, learn, work, play? Is the thrust of the work putting on Sundays or is there margin left for neighbors and co-workers outside the four walls? Etc…
Love all of this and firmly believe the future of the church is small, which means a requirement to diversify income streams for churches and pastors so that the gospel is set free from behind sanctuary and budget meeting doors!!!
Could you speak more to the topic of appointing leaders who have been discipled for a few months? What does that look like for you? Many small churches (including ours) need more leadership and I wonder sometimes if we wait too long to appoint people as official leaders. What are you doing to build up those potential leaders and then appoint them?
Hey Ethan!
Thanks for the question.
We activate people as quickly as possible at an appropriate level of leadership.
Jesus selected the least qualified people in Israel. They were unclean fisherman, tax-collectors, zealots, and worse. He could have selected members of the Sanhedrin to build the Kingdom on, but He didn’t! He picked those b/c He didn’t have to spend time un-teaching them, he could just put them to work. He spent about 18 months-ish on high engagement modeling, then he assisted them, and coached them, and finally sent them! iMACS = identify, model, assist, coach, and send.
We try to get new disciples moving quickly doing SOMETHING. We usually take them through the 21-day challenge and have them start practicing asking questions and sharing their story and have the identify 3-5 people they can repeat the 21-day challenge with almost as soon as their done. So within 4-6 weeks, they can repeat the process. Then we walk them into deeper levels of leadership training when appropriate.
21-day challenge → seeker group → x-group → discipling community. Each of those has either a modeling or training phase.
I think the problem that churches often run into is that they don’t know or train people who just met Jesus that they can pretty immediately become disciple-makers! We don’t give them appropriate level tools!
I’d be happy to get on a zoom call if it’s helpful!
Most of the tools I mentioned here are found at disciplemakingcollective.com
here’s an interesting video talking about pace of DM https://zume.training/pace-of-multiplication-matters
those numbers are shocking
It’s hard to understand how we got here!
I really love the concepts in this post. I think you are tapping into the psyche of many American Christians, particularly in church leadership.
However, I see a problem I'd love your input on -- that's not what 95% of professing believers want. Most want the bigger church with programs and systems, etc.
I'm not saying they should want that, but that they do. It's not the ideal, but it is the norm.
So how do we operate in a culture where that is the norm? This kind of call to a more idealistic approach definitely resonates with me, but the realist in me doesn't see the path forward.
Could you explore what a path forward would look like?
Hey Trey! What a thoughtful and sincere question. Thank you for your thoughts!
I would have said 10 year ago you would be accurate. The modern American church was the preferred model for gathering the saints, and I think that's still true for those over 40 y.o. I launched our first disicple-making network of simple churches 20 years ago this year and we were often considered cultish and fringe. However, since COVID, I don't think that is the case. Believers under 40 don't relate to or desire the large attractional model. Even my own children are not interested in size, programs, great presentation, etc. There is a massive shift of people like you and me who are asking good questions and looking for relational models that are alternative.
The second thing I'd have to respond to is that our job is not to do the things that people want, but to be committed to following Biblical models even when people don't want them. I believe the Biblical model of disciple-making is "more time with fewer people produces greater results."
I try to not be concerned with what the 95% "want" and more about the 5% who REALLY want to make disicples who make disicples. Now, granted that poses some pretty serious problems - like - how do we make a living and how do we keep enough centralization to hold it all together. Those are REAL and SIGNIFICANT questions that we have to keep trusting the Lord with.
I think we operate in that culture by becoming MISSIONARIES to that culture and offering something that is real and deep. Our job is not to have 1000 people in worship, but to invest deeply in the few who say "YES" when Jesus asks, "Follow me?" We have to let go of our metrics that determine success for the church when they don't align with the model Jesus left us. He gave all of Himself to 3, had 9 others (who were probably layered under the 3 - 3x3) and then the 72. Each larger layer got less of Him.
8 long-form sermons to the crowd, 30-40 stories he told, about 100 one-line zingers (let the dead bury the dead), and about 340 questions mostly to individuals.
We've got the wrong scoreboard for disciple-making.
Will it cost us dearly to adopt a different scoreboard? YES!
Will it fit into the current model of large gathering attractional church? Probably not.
Will we have to figure out have to pay our bills? YES!
Is it all worth it? ABOSLUTELY!
Blessings Trey! Let's talk more - especially if you are interested in pursuing simple church!
Jesus sent his apostles fishing, out on the sea of Galilee, in a boat with nets and hooks, then they sold their catch to earn money. My point is this. All I can offer is my personal story. I’ve been doing the Lord’s work very effectively for 45 years and not once did I ask for or seek money within the context of that work.
Instead I went out and welded steel and helped build oil refineries and power plants to provide fuel and electricity for people. Much of the time I worked 60+ hr. weeks and often barely had time to wash and sleep. Did that diminish my part in the Lord’s work in any way? I can categorically tell you the answer is no.
In fact it has enhanced my ability to do the Lord’s work in many unexpected ways. My industrial construction career taught me many valuable skills, the greatest one being efficiency, and learning to make due with what tools and materials are available on a remote construction site. The Kingdom of Heaven is first and foremost about serving our fellow man. I served the Kingdom by doing my small part in making sure fuel and electricity was available for people so they could travel and heat their homes in the winter, so they could in turn also serve the Kingdom by the work they do and so on. It spread outward. Turning on one new power plant can provide a million people with essential electricity so they can, in their own way, also work for the Kingdom. That’s not merely growing and expanding by addition or multiplication. That’s exponential growth!
With that construction experience under my belt I can now direct that earned wisdom directly towards the Kingdom in my retirement years and preach the good news in a very efficient manner. The systems I have setup and use cost me a little less than $100 a year to operate and maintain. I observe many others who are working alongside me for the Kingdom who spend thousands, tens of thousands, and even more annually, for systems that only produce a fraction of what I do, both in quantity and quality, and their work is nearly always supported from donations and Kingdom related merchandise.
I’m not bashing what anyone else does. We all have the same free will. But the fact remains that Jesus sent the apostles fishing, and he sent me to weld to produce fuel and power. Both viable and highly profitable approaches to working for the Kingdom.
What does a person learn from a donation being deposited in a bank account? I’m asking because I don’t know. Never had the experience. But I do know that accepting handouts does make you obligated to your investors. That is a burden I do not have, and that is very liberating.
There are some god thoughts in this post, MA. I think there’s a lot of truth there. I would suggest looking at the missionary life of Paula and his traveling companions that often allowed Gods people to help him pay for his ministry expenses. I do think the church CEO model is broken, but I also think there is a Biblical mandate to support those God has called to a missional role. I think it’s a balance. I did both personally. I have contracts for work, depend on supporters who I fundraise with and do a little bit of “sales” like here in Substack. So IMHO there is a balance somewhere in there. Thanks for sharing!!
I totally agree Kevin. I wan't trying to push a one sided approach. Was simply relating my own experience, and how good efficiency can go a long way on very small resources. The worker does deserve his wages. Keep up the good work! We're all working for the same Kingdom.
Totally agree! Good word MA! Thank you so much for investing your life in the Kingdom and expecting nothing in return. What a huge. Blessing for you and others! May many follow that path! If we make disciples where we work, we are getting paid to do ministry!!
BINGO! You nailed it. Ministry has to be set free. It will find its way to where the need is. Ministry is a spiritual exercise and Spirit is like the wind. Wherever the wind blows I will go. Thanks for an uplifting exchange. It's just what I needed today.
I love the thoughts and love the heart. I pastored a church of this size for 7 years. I can testify to the beauty of the relationships and how it super-charged the discipleship process. I think there is a lot appetite for this type of church.
I do struggle with the concept of this being more biblical. I see passages in the Bible that do describe smaller gatherings, but I also see some that describe bigger gatherings. How does the principle of interpretation for "descriptive not prescriptive" apply here?
That’s a good word, Trey. I don’t think I’ve ever said it should be in either or, I tried to always suggest that each has its own role. I do believe the modern megaships has a role in gathering in sharing the gospel to large groups of people, but when it comes to Disciple Making, I don’t think you can have effective Rich multiplying Disciple Making In that large setting. But both are needed! I know we saw a large gathering of believers in Jerusalem, but once the gospel was pushed out to the mission fields, I don’t think you will find a large setting as far as we know in scripture. But more than anything, I only want to Imitate the model of Jesus! As far as we know, Jesus only top eight Long for servants in a crowd, he told 30 to 40 stories among smaller crowds and sometime larger, we have about 101 liners that were zingers like eat my flesh and drink my blood or let the dead buried their own dead. And we have 340 questions that he asked to individuals in order to make disciples. So our model always prioritizes more time with fewer people producing greater results. I think Jesus modeled that his deep relationships were smaller the deeper they went. Starting with Peter James and Jon. Then extending out to the other nine disciples and then beyond that to the larger crowds. I’m not adamant on this and I’m not anti-big Church. And I’m not trying to compete at all with the bigger churches. I just think that Jesus model was more time with your people.
Blessings, brother! So glad you’re jumping in these
I totally agree. With a population of 8 billion people, many approaches are needed. There's no singular approach that will get it all done, but there are certain key principles that can't be ignored. You're digging deep and uncovering the underlying pattern and that's great. The pattern is the foundation. Principles are the framework built on top of the supporting pattern. And none of it can ever go anywhere when if we close our minds to the greater realities.
If we just simply go back to the story of Jesus and recognize that he came here to model this for us, it becomes so much simpler. If we do things exactly like he did them, we will get the results that he got. Blessings brother! Thank you so much for engaging.
That helps. I certainly don't want you to think I'm putting you on blast. Just interacting with your ideas and chewing on them myself.
I think I would agree that smaller groups tend to help promote to deeper faith. That's one reason why bigger churches have a small group ministry. If done well (which doesn't always happen), these small group ministries can facilitate the slow, steady, deep faith work. Meanwhile, the large Sunday morning gathering can be beneficial to have skilled ministers of God's Word preaching, and the more efficient pooling of resources for God's work.
Again, that makes a lot of assumptions about how those ministries function.
Keep doing what you are doing! Appreciate you.
Hey Trey! Absolutely no offense. Great convos on this and it is my passion, so you’ll never send too much! Thankful for the Body of Christ
I would love to hear more about the efficiency piece. My experience has been that when the resources of the large church are pulled together it then gets spent on meeting the perceived needs of that individual church therefore the church serving to be more attractional, therefore requiring more stuff, space, and excellent that requires more money and a large % of the pooled resources get spent on the church itself as opposed to advancing the message outside and beyond the members. There are obviously exceptions to this, but I’m in the other side regarding efficiency.
Also, on small groups within the church. Generally, the people who go to small groups are the more mature believers, and often terms become inward, focused Bible studies without an outward focused mission. Because I am gifted apostolic in evangel this rubs against my values and gifting. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a bad thing as long as this small groups stay a really good balance between shepherding on the inside and advancing on the outside, but typically that’s not the case.
If I sound jaded, he’s know that I’m not! I am making observations, not criticisms. I love the local church and I love the body of Christ. And that’s why I’m so passionate about doing it with a Jesus model at the front and a western corporate model bowing down to the Jesus model about in scripture.
Thank you so much for sharing and engaging! That’s really the answer to continue to find God‘s will for his church for his people to continue seeking him and diving! Lessons, brother!
Oh for sure.
About efficiency -- I've seen many large churches double down on buildings and more staff for managing the ever-growing ministry schedule. But I'd be interested to see the dollar amount per church member that is going toward "missional" efforts in a large church versus a smaller church. My experience is limited to a very small sliver of church types, but in that experience, my math has indicated the larger churches do a better job with missional resources per member than the smaller ones.
I also agree with you on the small groups. I've see too many small group ministries not done correctly. However, if the small group ministry is done correctly, it can be a great synergy with the large church gathering on Sunday mornings.
Not sure how you manage to boil all this down into one clear Substack post. But this is great! What a great repair to be able to share with one another about explosive kingdom impact. Thanks Kevin!!
This is a fun video.
https://zume.training/presenter?session=9&slide=t25_b&view=slideshow
Haha! Many, Many years of thought my friend!
AMEN!!
This is such a needed perspective. The early church grew through connection, not construction. Simplicity still carries the greatest power to multiply faith.
YES! Good word, Word! Blessings!
This is why I have a holy obsession about Lydia of Thyatira 🙏🏽💜
Love it!
I think that the larger churches worth their salt recognize this and encourage small groups within their membership to provide connection and accountability. There is a place for larger groups to provide economies of scale, but effective evangelism really happens via relationships.
I think I would just ask economies of scale for what. What type of disciples are being made? Is there a place to raise up multipliers or is everyone a “come and see” person? What are we equipping them to do with their faith? Is the system that requires so much investment (time, $, volunteerism, planning, execuring, etc) leaving any margin for people to make disciple in the places they live, learn, work, play? Is the thrust of the work putting on Sundays or is there margin left for neighbors and co-workers outside the four walls? Etc…
Love all of this and firmly believe the future of the church is small, which means a requirement to diversify income streams for churches and pastors so that the gospel is set free from behind sanctuary and budget meeting doors!!!
YES! So true! I’d like to hear more from you on this! DM me and we can discuss more.