Looks like your model is “framing” and “reframing”.
I see alot of people energy here and only small doses of GODS WORD. I hope it’s not the case. We all agree Ephesians 4 is awesome. But so is Micah 6:8 or Isaiah 49. Revelation 5, Hallelujah!
Programming the church folk to make disciples is the work of The Spirit. We all do have a capacity and calling. Agree. Teaching instead of preaching works well for the saved (in the church). I see Jesus using that model. Teaching, showing, building them up, then sending them out for work. Then they return and discussing, get taught again by The Word who became flesh, and repeat. Jesus modeled prayer. We the church and its leaders all have to come to Matthew 19:25 like the twelve. Who can be saved? Those who discovered the APEST model? ?
They overcame by “…the blood of the Lamb (HIS WORK), and the Word of their testimony (them sharing how GOD has done and is doing a work in their lives), and they loved not their lives until the end”. No condemnation here. Just worried this may be another attempt to find a pattern to correct the church when His Spirit is completely adequate. The church is fractured because of failed “patterns and programs”. I’m nearing 70, and since 1975 when I got saved, I’ve seen so many versions of this. Few pastors and church leaders actually spend time learning the full counsel of the Word, so they only give time to New Testament points. But Paul said we have these old stories for our instruction. Yet few actually teach them. They are pictures (stories) in Old Testament there to teach us the New Testament principles we all are so desperate for.
I love this Pete. I totally agree with you. The answer is not strategy of content or programs. It is the Word. And one place we see this is 1 Cor 14:26 - when you come together each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for the building up.
The ministry of the Gospel is a community oriented effort where we all bring our gifts and fruits to the gatherings based on how He knit us together in our mothers womb (psalm 139) to fulfill the good works that He planned in advance fir us to do (Eph 2:10)
This requires us all to embrace and live into our design.
Solid framework for rethinking ministry structure. The tension between apostolic risk-taking and shepherding stability is real, I've sen organizations stall because they skewed too far toward either the Scattered or Gathered. The pilot team approach makes sense, gradual adoption beats forcing a full restrucure that'll just trigger immune system rejection from existing leadership. Multiplication stalls when one gifted person becomes the bottleneck.
Great insights Foundry! Thanks for sharing. There is an old book called how to changed the church without killing it. I can’t even remember who wrote it, but similar ideas. I prefer to lunch things fast, and from scratch, but for those working to turn a big shift, these are the keys to slow transition. Blessings!
“But here’s the harder truth: If you don’t do this, you’ll lose more.”
This is the harder truth to swallow while the present local church keeps doing the same thing over and over again. When I was still a pastor, I posed a question, “we’ve done the same thing for 40 years. After celebrating our church anniversary, can you promise me that the next 40 years doing the same thing over again bring change?”
Doing APEST here would be challenging in old system. Any sniff of change would sound the alarm. Rather then trying, new community have to rise up. Old wineskin loves the same even if it’s dying.
I totally agree, Jonathan! My time and energy, as you know, is spent raising up new wineskins. I think that's the only way. This article was to be a voice for those stuck in the passive system who need to be empowered to follow their gifts and calls. Blessings, brother!
Looks like your model is “framing” and “reframing”.
I see alot of people energy here and only small doses of GODS WORD. I hope it’s not the case. We all agree Ephesians 4 is awesome. But so is Micah 6:8 or Isaiah 49. Revelation 5, Hallelujah!
Programming the church folk to make disciples is the work of The Spirit. We all do have a capacity and calling. Agree. Teaching instead of preaching works well for the saved (in the church). I see Jesus using that model. Teaching, showing, building them up, then sending them out for work. Then they return and discussing, get taught again by The Word who became flesh, and repeat. Jesus modeled prayer. We the church and its leaders all have to come to Matthew 19:25 like the twelve. Who can be saved? Those who discovered the APEST model? ?
They overcame by “…the blood of the Lamb (HIS WORK), and the Word of their testimony (them sharing how GOD has done and is doing a work in their lives), and they loved not their lives until the end”. No condemnation here. Just worried this may be another attempt to find a pattern to correct the church when His Spirit is completely adequate. The church is fractured because of failed “patterns and programs”. I’m nearing 70, and since 1975 when I got saved, I’ve seen so many versions of this. Few pastors and church leaders actually spend time learning the full counsel of the Word, so they only give time to New Testament points. But Paul said we have these old stories for our instruction. Yet few actually teach them. They are pictures (stories) in Old Testament there to teach us the New Testament principles we all are so desperate for.
I love this Pete. I totally agree with you. The answer is not strategy of content or programs. It is the Word. And one place we see this is 1 Cor 14:26 - when you come together each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for the building up.
The ministry of the Gospel is a community oriented effort where we all bring our gifts and fruits to the gatherings based on how He knit us together in our mothers womb (psalm 139) to fulfill the good works that He planned in advance fir us to do (Eph 2:10)
This requires us all to embrace and live into our design.
Blessings, Pete.
Solid framework for rethinking ministry structure. The tension between apostolic risk-taking and shepherding stability is real, I've sen organizations stall because they skewed too far toward either the Scattered or Gathered. The pilot team approach makes sense, gradual adoption beats forcing a full restrucure that'll just trigger immune system rejection from existing leadership. Multiplication stalls when one gifted person becomes the bottleneck.
Great insights Foundry! Thanks for sharing. There is an old book called how to changed the church without killing it. I can’t even remember who wrote it, but similar ideas. I prefer to lunch things fast, and from scratch, but for those working to turn a big shift, these are the keys to slow transition. Blessings!
“But here’s the harder truth: If you don’t do this, you’ll lose more.”
This is the harder truth to swallow while the present local church keeps doing the same thing over and over again. When I was still a pastor, I posed a question, “we’ve done the same thing for 40 years. After celebrating our church anniversary, can you promise me that the next 40 years doing the same thing over again bring change?”
Doing APEST here would be challenging in old system. Any sniff of change would sound the alarm. Rather then trying, new community have to rise up. Old wineskin loves the same even if it’s dying.
Good write up non the less.
I totally agree, Jonathan! My time and energy, as you know, is spent raising up new wineskins. I think that's the only way. This article was to be a voice for those stuck in the passive system who need to be empowered to follow their gifts and calls. Blessings, brother!
I tried to do it, just some changes but my journey came to a halt. But at least I tried it. Maybe other people might find a better way. Who knows. 😀.