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✔︎ Kevin Beasley - Co-host, Kingdom Effect Podcast & Disciple-Making Catalyst
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Show Notes
Most Christians know they should share their faith, but something always holds them back. The conversations feel forced, awkward, and uncomfortable. What if you’re not using the right technique? What if they reject you? What if they judge you for judging them?
🤯 But what if the secret to breakthrough spiritual conversations wasn’t found in a seminary classroom—but in a police interrogation room? What if the same principles that get hardened criminals to confess their darkest secrets are the exact principles that unlock authentic gospel conversations?
In this raw, tension-filled episode of The Kingdom Effect podcast, hosts Kevin Beasley and Glenn “Buckshot” Buckley explore the shocking parallels between criminal interrogation and spiritual discipleship. Glenn shares hard-won wisdom from hundreds of interrogations with some of society’s most despised criminals—and reveals why the church’s approach to sharing the gospel often does more harm than good.
⚠️ Warning: This episode will make you uncomfortable. ⚠️ It will challenge everything you thought you knew about judgment, grace, and who deserves God’s love.
🔥 The Breakthrough Moment:
“I watched a very veteran investigator stop right in the middle of an interrogation and start praying for the guy he was interviewing. At the time, I didn’t get it. I’m like, this is a cool trick to trick this guy into confessing. But as I got to know him, man, no—his heart was real. ‘Let me pray for you, dude.’”
This wasn’t manipulation. This was ministry happening in the least expected place—a police interrogation room with one of society’s most despised criminals. And it worked because the love was real.
🎯 What You’ll Discover:
The Interrogation Principle That Changes Everything
Why “good cop, bad cop” doesn’t work—and what does
The critical difference between interviewing violent criminals vs. child predators
How showing even micro-expressions of disgust instantly shuts people down
The mindset shift from “I’m above you” to “we’re equals” that unlocks confession
Why do criminals want to confess once they trust you’re sincere
The Uncomfortable Truth About Sharing Faith
Why fire and brimstone preaching fails (and what works instead)
How printing out the Roman Road and taking it to Kenya taught Glen nothing
The dangerous trap of keeping yourself “elevated” while sharing the gospel
Why men hold their spirituality close to their chest (and how to break through)
The stoning story from John 8 that the church refuses to finish
What Body Language Reveals About the Soul
The youth pastor who completely changed when talking about child victims
How to read tears, lip quivering, and fidgeting as signs someone’s ready to break
The power of asking: “What’s that emotion about?”
Why physical touch—a hand on the forearm—communicates safety without words
When to push deeper and when to back off and give space
The 75% That Nobody Talks About
Glenn’s estimate: 75% of internet crimes against children offenders were sexually abused themselves
The three reasons bad things happen: our choices, others’ choices, or living in an unreconciled world
Why some guys had nothing in their past pointing toward deviance (were they born that way?)
The veteran investigator who stopped mid-interrogation to pray for a criminal
How pornography exposure in war zones created addictions that came home
💡 Game-Changing Insights:
The Elevation Principle - “If you can elevate them to where you’re equals, or even maybe they’re a higher priority to you than yourself, all that other stuff just kind of happens. When we keep ourselves elevated and them way down here, it’s written all over your face. You can’t hide that at all.”
The Natural Consequence Framework - Helping people understand their crimes/sins are natural consequences of their past doesn’t excuse them—it opens them up to honest conversation about how they got here.
Milk vs. Meat - Don’t shove Scripture down people’s throats before they can digest it. Process it yourself first, then spit it out in story form they can handle.
The Unfinished Story - “Jesus never intended for that story to stop at Cast the First Stone. That’s where the church stops it. But what did Jesus do after all the stones were dropped? Jesus bent down, he picked her up, he touched her. Jesus got her dirt on him. That story doesn’t stop at just dropping your stone—you got to love them.”
🔥 Most Powerful Quotes:
“For a second, if you show any type of judgment or disgust at all—even down to the micro expressions on your face—they immediately shut down. So it’s about building trust.”
“I just really had to learn how to slow down and really look at these guys as children of God who have committed these horrible crimes, but Jesus still loves them.”
“Once you reach that point where they trust you and know you’re sincere, man, they’re ready. They’re eager. They’ve been waiting for years to share this and have this conversation.”
“At the end of the day, if they repent and ask Jesus for forgiveness, they’re going to get it. That’s a hard place to go for a lot of people.”
“We can still love them through this. We can still love them through Christ and help them become a better person, whether that’s in prison or out of prison or wherever it may be.”
“As believers, we’ll go out and share the gospel with somebody, but we still have ourselves elevated above them. We’re believers, you’re not. We believe and behave, you don’t. If in your heart you have not elevated that person, you can’t hide it.”
“I don’t think I ever got that Bible out of my backpack in Kenya. But you know what I did? I sat down with Kenyans in their huts and shared stories with them, and they shared stories with me. That really taught me that opening that door is just sitting down and being honest and real and vulnerable.”
“Do we really, deep down in our hearts, believe there’s nothing a person can do to forfeit themselves from His love?”
“Nothing he said resonated with me, just that story [John 8] resonated. Jesus never intended for that story to stop at Cast the First Stone. You got to take it a step further, and you got to love them. That’s the hard part.”
📍 Key Topics Covered:
Criminal interrogation techniques vs. spiritual conversations
Internet crimes against children investigations
The psychology of sexual deviance and childhood trauma
Good cop/bad cop myth vs. what actually works
Micro-expressions and body language reading
The elevation principle: viewing people as equals
Fire and brimstone preaching vs. story-sharing
John 8 and the woman caught in adultery (the full story)
Physical touch as ministry
Milk vs. meat in discipleship
Born this way vs. product of environment debate
Judgment and disgust as conversation killers
Building trust with the “worst of the worst”
The power of prayer in interrogation rooms
Seeing potential vs. judging the past
🚨 Critical Questions This Episode Forces You to Answer:
If you had experienced their past, who would you be today?
Are you elevating people to your level or keeping yourself above them?
Can you see in someone’s eyes that you’re judging them—even when you say the right words?
Have you stopped the stoning story at “cast the first stone” without picking people up?
Are you trying to scare people into believing (fire and brimstone)?
Do you really believe there’s nothing someone can do to forfeit God’s love?
Are you comfortable getting someone else’s dirt on you?
Resources & Shoutouts:
Tennessee Underground Podcast - True crime podcast hosted by Jimmy Leach (retired TBI), where Glenn was featured discussing his interrogation work
Operation Saving Life - Scott Hoard and Daniel Breeden’s ministry (they rescued another child while listening to this episode!)
Scarlet Rope - Glenn’s nonprofit working with human trafficking survivors
Next Steps:
If You’re Struggling to Have Spiritual Conversations:
Stop elevating yourself - They can see through it. Get on their level.
Kill your micro-expressions - Practice not showing disgust or judgment, even with your face
Watch for emotional cues - Tears, quivering lips, fidgeting mean they’re ready to go deeper
Ask the powerful question: “What’s that emotion about?”
Finish the story - Don’t just drop your stone—pick them up and get their dirt on you
If This Episode Created Tension in You:
Good. That’s where growth happens. Wrestling with these concepts is exactly what you should be doing. The question isn’t whether these people deserve grace—it’s whether you believe Jesus when He says there’s nothing they can do to forfeit His love.
The Challenge:
“If I could leave everybody with one simple thing to do, it’s the people in your life—whether it’s family, friends, co-workers, somebody you’re intentionally trying to disciple or share the gospel with, or somebody you’re interrogating in an interview room—elevate them. Until we stop identifying people for what they do or how the world labels them, what are we doing?”
“Jesus didn’t just see another dude hanging on the cross. Jesus saw one of his children. That’s the bottom line.”
Available on all major podcast platforms and in the Kingdom Effect Facebook Group.
